PrototypeA/ChatLog

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Chat between Manuel and Pietro on Aug 27 2008

Topics are power laws, setting up the code and the project in general.

[18:39:49] … hi pietro
[21:42:13] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: Hi manuel!
[21:42:28] … can we chat^ let's see
[21:42:36] Manuel Barkhau: yup seems to work
[21:43:32] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: call refused
[21:43:51] … i was just answering you on the exponent
[21:44:29] Manuel Barkhau: well I don't have a mike, so it doesn't make much sense
[21:44:40] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: :)
[21:44:56] … more like a soliloqui from me (however you spell THAT)
[21:45:11] … so, the answer is, yes the exponent is really important
[21:45:21] Manuel Barkhau: how so?
[21:45:24] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: all the tags seem to all fit with an exponent of 1.1
[21:45:33] … which by itself is quite weird
[21:45:42] … but generally the exponent is very hard to match
[21:46:12] … so for example right now I am studying a similar process:
[21:46:28] … avalanche of death among animal species
[21:46:37] … and it has a certain exponent in nature
[21:46:47] … we have models that model the process
[21:46:54] Manuel Barkhau: hmm, intresting
[21:46:55] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: and they also give rise to a power law
[21:47:02] … but with a different exponent
[21:47:22] Manuel Barkhau: how do you position the tags along the x axis?
[21:47:23] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: and no matter how they modify the exponent they don't seem to get the one that is in nature
[21:47:42] … which by itself is considered the prove that the model they are studying is WROOOONG
[21:47:53] … you list all the tags from the most common to the least common
[21:48:11] … so for x=1 you put the tag which is most common
[21:48:19] … the second most common goes at x=2
[21:48:21] … and so on
[21:48:23] Manuel Barkhau: k
[21:48:53] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: so on this you have cattuto model who was able to model the tags with a simple process with exactly that exponent
[21:49:08] … so it is considered to be a 'good model'.
[21:49:25] … now in particular I am very weary about using an exponent of -1
[21:49:39] … And I am not sure why, but strange things happen
[21:49:44] Manuel Barkhau: o so the exponent is extrapolated from other data?
[21:50:25] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: I mean I think the exponent on a power law can be anything from -1 to -infinity. But I am not an expert on this
[21:50:46] … the problem is that taking exactly -1 might give problems. Like the integral diverges
[21:51:20] … which I am not sure what would mean for us, but why going into trouble, when we know from enough studies what is the right exponent for this kind of models
[21:51:41] … yes, the exponent is extrapolated from the exponent that we observe from the tag clouds of delicious
[21:52:01] … but it is the same on other broad folksonomy
[21:52:03] … tools
[21:52:13] … it is quite stable, for what I know
[21:52:23] Manuel Barkhau: any margin of error?
[21:52:48] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: of course there is.
[21:53:02] Manuel Barkhau: that you can show me?
[21:53:28] … i'm just supprised its so stable over so many datasets
[21:53:38] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: in any case I can send you the papers with which the exponent was studied and how it was modeled
[21:54:24] … do you use the mac program "Papers"?
[21:54:37] Manuel Barkhau: no
[21:54:44] … linux
[21:54:49] … what's the file format
[21:54:51] … ?
[21:55:00] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: no prob. just that if nor I would also send you the metadata
[21:57:12] … http://arxiv.org/abs/cs.CY/0605015
[22:00:07] … actually in the paper I sent you they use an exponent of -5/4, I think. which is -1.25
[22:02:50] … so, let's get back to work, as I don't have much time
[22:03:10] Manuel Barkhau: right, have you got things running?
[22:03:24] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: hmm, not sure
[22:03:29] … I installed things
[22:03:36] … both mysql
[22:03:38] … subversion
[22:03:44] … and django
[22:03:49] Manuel Barkhau: got the code from the repo?
[22:03:54] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: but then is not like they made a big party
[22:03:56] … nop
[22:04:31] … ok, so I need to install mercurial
[22:04:39] Manuel Barkhau: http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/BinaryPackages
[22:04:51] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: I just came back 5 minutes ago. when I left this afternoon the changes where not there
[22:06:39] Manuel Barkhau: i should have put the instructions up right away
[22:06:57] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: no prob. I am just unpacking mercurial
[22:07:10] Manuel Barkhau: so somebody wanting to check out the project doesn't have to go through any hoops
[22:08:26] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: ok, i installed mercurial
[22:08:29] … now what?
[22:08:52] Manuel Barkhau: hg clone http://freehg.org/u/mbarkhau/metascore/
[22:09:07] … run that on the console and you should have the code checked out
[22:09:23] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: ok
[22:09:38] … will it delete all my hard disk?
[22:09:44] Manuel Barkhau: only half
[22:09:51] … the part thats important
[22:09:56] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: :)
[22:10:16] Manuel Barkhau: hg is the mercurial command
[22:10:25] … hg: mercury...
[22:10:46] … you can just type hg for a list of commands
[22:11:01] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: ok. is doing something
[22:11:17] … Last login: Wed Aug 27 11:55:50 on ttys002
Mairbook:~ ibook$ hg clone http://freehg.org/u/mbarkhau/metascore/
destination directory: metascore
requesting all changes
adding changesets
adding manifests
adding file changes
[22:11:53] … will it work with a slow connection?
[22:12:00] … like the phone
[22:12:07] Manuel Barkhau: hmm
[22:12:51] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: is not progressing
[22:12:57] Manuel Barkhau: funny it used to show the size of the repo
[22:13:07] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: ok,
[22:13:10] … done
[22:13:11] Manuel Barkhau: 166.8kb
[22:13:25] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: so I should have a directory metascore
[22:13:32] Manuel Barkhau: but when you update it only transfers the diference, so it should be faster from now on
[22:14:01] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: FUN!!!
[22:14:03] Manuel Barkhau: right, or it may be called like the url
[22:14:09] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: I have it and is all in mython
[22:14:13] … python
[22:14:39] Manuel Barkhau: also javascript and some sql
[22:14:48] … but mostly python yes
[22:14:49] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: so now I should try to make a small difference to see if it works
[22:14:59] … yes, I don't know js nor mysql
[22:15:35] … and all my books are in Dublin.
[22:15:41] … let's start with python
[22:15:44] … then we go on
[22:16:56] Manuel Barkhau: right, so you can start a server from the project directory
[22:17:09] … use the command python manage.py runserver
[22:17:19] … that starts a local server on port 8000
[22:17:36] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: I hope there is a way to store all this conversation!
[22:17:37] Manuel Barkhau: if your pythonpath and django is set up correctly that is
[22:18:02] … copy past if all else fails
[22:18:17] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: hmm.
[22:18:34] … failed to sya that I need to be in the directory of manage.py
[22:19:08] … cd metascore
[22:19:12] Manuel Barkhau: right
[22:19:14] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: ok now it works
[22:19:29] Manuel Barkhau: you'll probalby get an error page
[22:19:36] … but that means it's working =)
[22:19:39] … sortof
[22:19:45] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: nop
[22:19:48] … Traceback (most recent call last):

 File "manage.py", line 11, in <module>
execute_manager(settings)
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/django/core/management/__init__.py", line 334, in execute_manager
utility.execute()
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/django/core/management/__init__.py", line 295, in execute
self.fetch_command(subcommand).run_from_argv(self.argv)
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/django/core/management/base.py", line 77, in run_from_argv
self.execute(*args, **options.__dict__)
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/django/core/management/base.py", line 87, in execute
translation.activate('en-us')
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/django/utils/translation/__init__.py", line 73, in activate
return real_activate(language)
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/django/utils/translation/__init__.py", line 43, in delayed_loader
return g['real_%s' % caller](*args, **kwargs)
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/django/utils/translation/trans_real.py", line 209, in activate
_active[currentThread()] = translation(language)
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/django/utils/translation/trans_real.py", line 198, in translation
default_translation = _fetch(settings.LANGUAGE_CODE)
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/django/utils/translation/trans_real.py", line 181, in _fetch
app = getattr(__import__(appname[:p], {}, {}, [appname[p+1:]]), appname[p+1:])
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/django/contrib/admin/__init__.py", line 1, in <module>
from django.contrib.admin.options import ModelAdmin, HORIZONTAL, VERTICAL
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/django/contrib/admin/options.py", line 5, in <module>
from django.contrib.contenttypes.models import ContentType
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/django/contrib/contenttypes/models.py", line 1, in <module>
from django.db import models
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/django/db/__init__.py", line 16, in <module>
backend = __import__('%s%s.base' % (_import_path, settings.DATABASE_ENGINE), {}, {}, [])
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages/django/db/backends/postgresql_psycopg2/base.py", line 20, in <module>
raise ImproperlyConfigured("Error loading psycopg2 module: %s" % e)

django.core.exceptions.ImproperlyConfigured: Error loading psycopg2 module: No module named psycopg2
[22:20:12] Manuel Barkhau: oh right databas
[22:20:14] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: the last line does not sound right
[22:20:30] Manuel Barkhau: you have to edit the settings.py
[22:20:49] … so it knows how to connect to your local database
[22:20:55] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: in metascore?
[22:21:00] Manuel Barkhau: yes
[22:21:06] … metascore/settings.py
[22:21:26] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: oh boy
[22:21:30] … yes now I remember
[22:21:42] … need to set up the master password for mysql
[22:21:47] … and then the other password
[22:21:55] … aargh.
[22:21:56] … ok
[22:22:16] Manuel Barkhau: and the database engine
[22:22:20] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: you got the commands near you, or shall I google them?
[22:22:36] Manuel Barkhau: i'm not sure if you'll need to install a db connector for mysql
[22:23:28] … once you have that set up, you can run the command: python manage.py syncdb
[22:23:30] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: i hope not
[22:23:43] Manuel Barkhau: that will try to create the tables in the database
[22:23:54] … that should also tell you if the connection is working
[22:23:56] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: still I need to define the users in the db
[22:24:18] Manuel Barkhau: maybe you should try sqlite for now
[22:24:30] … no need for all that administrative stuff
[22:24:38] … though i haven't tried it myself
[22:24:43] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: naa, I already have this installed
[22:24:53] … and I have used this in the past
[22:25:00] … I am just a bit tired now
[22:25:01] Manuel Barkhau: k
[22:25:44] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: ok, so here we are stuck
[22:25:52] … i will solve this another day
[22:26:02] Manuel Barkhau: ah well
[22:26:03] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: instead explain me how do I commit changes
[22:26:17] Manuel Barkhau: you can type hg status
[22:26:32] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: from where?
[22:26:33] Manuel Barkhau: that should show you what has been changed in the repo
[22:26:44] … always in the metascore directory
[22:26:53] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: ok, and how do I send my changes?
[22:27:21] Manuel Barkhau: are you familiar with distributed version control?
[22:27:30] … or only svn?
[22:27:52] … the idea is that you set up your own repo on freehg.org
[22:27:54] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: we used one
[22:28:05] Manuel Barkhau: and then you "push" them there
[22:28:15] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: but it was a single repo for everybody
[22:28:27] Manuel Barkhau: right that's the difference
[22:28:36] … with hg everybody has there own repo
[22:28:51] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: ah, and that is supposedly easier
[22:28:51] Manuel Barkhau: you commit localy
[22:29:03] … well i don't no about that
[22:29:09] … its different
[22:29:13] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: and when you type hg status you get the changes that I made?
[22:29:35] Manuel Barkhau: at the very least, you don't need to ask an administrator to add you to some commiter list
[22:29:51] … no it just shows what you have changed
[22:30:03] … with hg commit, you can commit those changes to the repo
[22:30:04] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: no, you just need to ask everybody to consider your changes :)
[22:30:10] Manuel Barkhau: right
[22:30:22] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: to my repo, you mean
[22:30:27] Manuel Barkhau: locally
[22:30:43] … commits happen on your hard drive, you can always do that
[22:30:47] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: but how do I tell hg where is my repository?
[22:31:00] Manuel Barkhau: the hg push command sends them to your repository
[22:31:15] … well you have two
[22:31:24] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: no, sorry. I have a repo at freehg.org
[22:31:26] Manuel Barkhau: the metascore directory is also a repository
[22:31:28] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: or I will have
[22:31:36] … aargh
[22:31:49] Manuel Barkhau: so you have one locally to work on and one online to share with others
[22:31:59] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: if this gets much more complicated I will go back sending you snail mail
[22:32:21] … ok, so how does HG know which one is my online one
[22:32:25] Manuel Barkhau: the local one you can also work with offline and push when you have better connectivity
[22:32:41] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: so how does HG know which one is my online one?
[22:33:12] Manuel Barkhau: well when you do hg push that sends the changes
[22:33:29] … when yout do commit, that writes them to the local repo
[22:33:37] … so the difference is in the commands
[22:34:00] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: ok.
[22:34:06] Manuel Barkhau: not sure i'm doing a very good job at explaining this
[22:34:11] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: but hg push sends the changes to a url
[22:34:18] Manuel Barkhau: right
[22:34:20] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: how do I tell HG where this url is
[22:34:53] Manuel Barkhau: i think you just specify it like you did with the clone command, but let me check
[22:35:23] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: ok, found it
[22:35:25] … hg push http://freehg.org/u/pietrosperoni/metascore/
[22:35:30] Manuel Barkhau: ok
[22:35:36] … also there is hg help
[22:35:58] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: so let me try: I add a comment, first I commit and then I push
[22:36:02] Manuel Barkhau: and just hg for a list of command
[22:36:12] … right
[22:36:49] … the first push might take a while, because the whole repo has to be transfered like with the clone
[22:37:05] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: k
[22:38:04] … i am committing
[22:39:15] Manuel Barkhau: ok so now that we have that set up, when you want to get changes from me, you can use the hg pull command
[22:39:16] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: nop
[22:39:25] Manuel Barkhau: didn't work?
[22:39:30] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: hmm
[22:39:32] … nop
[22:39:44] … first he seem to need a username
[22:39:59] … but he did not ask me it, and the help does not specify how to set that up
[22:40:04] Manuel Barkhau: for commiting or pushing?
[22:40:14] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: then he asked me to comment
[22:40:31] Manuel Barkhau: right a commit should always have a comment
[22:40:37] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: but it was not in an editor I could recognize (sorry, not used to the old inline editors)
[22:40:51] … commit
[22:41:00] Manuel Barkhau: i think you can also specify the editor
[22:41:10] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: so I clicked ctr z and it has stopped it dead
[22:41:26] … i try again
[22:41:28] Manuel Barkhau: or just add the parameter -m and write your message
[22:41:44] … with -u you can specify the usre
[22:41:50] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: how do I getthe list of parameters
[22:42:00] Manuel Barkhau: hg help commit
[22:43:04] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: looks stuck
[22:43:08] … waiting for lock on working directory of /Users/ibook/metascore held by 'Mairbook.home:6071'
[22:43:22] … Mairbook:metascore ibook$ hg commit -u pietrosperoni -m "added test in comment"
waiting for lock on working directory of /Users/ibook/metascore held by 'Mairbook.home:6071'
[22:43:31] Manuel Barkhau: hmm
[22:43:34] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: i stop it again and try again with no user
[22:43:52] Manuel Barkhau: i dont think that's the problem
[22:44:05] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: in fact. same same
[22:44:32] … i wonder if he is protesting because some files are open
[22:44:33] Manuel Barkhau: kill 6071
[22:44:40] … that may also be
[22:45:12] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: first want to find out what it is
[22:45:18] … so next time is not a problem
[22:45:55] … 6'71: python
[22:46:12] Manuel Barkhau: hmm you have the server still running maybe?
[22:46:50] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: funny
[22:46:53] … IDLE is not
[22:49:12] … what a mess
[22:49:16] … kill did not work
[22:49:20] … kill -9 did
[22:49:27] … but then it killed hg
[22:49:35] … and then hg told me to do hg recover
[22:49:39] Manuel Barkhau: hmm hg was still running somewhere
[22:49:43] … ?
[22:50:03] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: airbook:metascore ibook$ hg commit -m "added test in comment"
waiting for lock on working directory of /Users/ibook/metascore held by 'Mairbook.home:6071'
Vim: Caught deadly signal HUP
Vim: Finished.
abort: journal already exists - run hg recover!
[1]- Killed hg commit
Mairbook:metascore ibook$ hg commit -m "added test in comment"
abort: journal already exists - run hg recover!
Mairbook:metascore ibook$ hg recover
rolling back interrupted transaction
checking changesets
checking manifests
crosschecking files in changesets and manifests
checking files
[22:50:11] Manuel Barkhau: oh right, hg does everything in a transaction
[22:50:21] … so commits cant corrupt your repo
[22:50:30] … or pushes another repo
[22:50:47] … so recover cleans up a broken commit
[22:51:09] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: but you just said it cannot go wrong
[22:51:17] … in any case it's taking ages
[22:51:38] Manuel Barkhau: well things can go wrong but at least your data is still there
[22:52:27] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: if it works well, i might use this in my normal life
[22:52:43] … 5010 files, 89 changesets, 5162 total revisions
[22:52:45] Manuel Barkhau: yes it's a nice tool
[22:52:46] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: ok, done
[22:52:57] … let us try again
[22:53:26] Manuel Barkhau: you can set up your username somewhere
[22:53:30] … let me check
[22:55:04] … http://hgbook.red-bean.com/hgbookch2.html#x6-430002.7.1
[22:55:35] … hgbook is very goot
[22:55:45] … should have shown you that earlier
[22:56:04] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: yes. ok commit worked, i think
[22:56:09] … now I try to push
[22:56:19] Manuel Barkhau: do hg log
[22:56:30] … your commit should be at the top
[22:57:13] … hg log -l 3
[22:57:21] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: yes
[22:57:21] Manuel Barkhau: that limits the list to 3 changes
[22:57:29] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: is there
[22:57:40] … plus there is a lot from Ed
[22:57:54] … you have attached it to Ed. It is like a virus
[22:58:05] … hg push http://freehg.org/u/pietrosperoni/metascore/
[22:58:32] Manuel Barkhau: actually that was me, but the content was from ed, so i thought it would be appropriate to use his username for that branch
[22:58:38] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: it should ask for the password
[22:58:47] Manuel Barkhau: that was the original metagovernment site
[22:58:52] … yes it should
[22:59:11] … right after it checks to see what changes have to be pushe
[22:59:14] … d
[22:59:30] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: i can see flocks of grandparents learning all this to take charge of their political activity :)
[23:00:08] Manuel Barkhau: well hopefully we can get a better interface =)
[23:00:32] … but that's a good point
[23:00:42] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: i know
[23:00:53] … think how the browser changed the internet
[23:00:57] … the net was there before
[23:01:06] Manuel Barkhau: the retired might have more time to invest in political change if it required less energy
[23:01:08] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: but suddenly everything was 1 click away
[23:01:34] … and something similar is happening with pdf, and academic papers right now
[23:01:53] Manuel Barkhau: using latex?
[23:02:04] … that's been round for ages no?
[23:02:16] … or do you mean because anybody can publish?
[23:02:18] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: no, that is too complex. using "Papers" for osx
[23:02:50] … that let you download and organise papers so easily that the research experience changes
[23:03:11] … it is so revolutionary that I am sure someone will make it for linux and windows soon
[23:03:15] Manuel Barkhau: oh that sounds nice
[23:03:38] … does it look at various publishing sites etc.
[23:03:43] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: honestly, if I did not have mac, Iwould buy one, just for how my work has changed
[23:03:46] … yes
[23:03:53] … search through all of them
[23:04:00] … automatically pulls metadata
[23:04:05] … organises papers
[23:04:24] … by author/title/journal/year... and so on
[23:04:33] … you can search on content or anything
[23:04:49] … if you have a pdf it helps you find what it is
[23:05:03] Manuel Barkhau: i don't read papers that much, so i can't really say how revolutionary it is
[23:05:13] … how does it compare to google scholar?
[23:05:22] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: it uses google scholar
[23:05:32] … but then it stores the pdf locally
[23:05:40] … so I keep on working when I am offline
[23:06:06] Manuel Barkhau: that is of course valuble
[23:06:07] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: what is missing is something that automatically tells me what cites what
[23:06:23] … yes. Now I have 400 papers in my computer.
[23:06:27] … less than 1 giga
[23:07:17] … before Ihad some 20, and I would get crazy
[23:07:46] Manuel Barkhau: yeah i know
[23:07:47] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: now I see all the papers that has been published on a topic, and immediatly I can find what is jey, what is irrelevant, and what is a useful addiction
[23:07:54] Manuel Barkhau: at work we have quite a large project
[23:08:07] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: I read they key, go through the addiction, and ignre the irrelevant
[23:08:11] Manuel Barkhau: i don't know how i'd navigate the codebase without eclipse
[23:08:23] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: what is eclipse
[23:08:31] … btw, push has gone through!
[23:08:42] Manuel Barkhau: it's a development environment for java
[23:08:51] … rather bulky
[23:09:08] … but takes off allot of the load that java imposes
[23:09:40] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: i never reallylearned java. one project for a class was enough. Python is more fun. and C is faster.
[23:09:43] Manuel Barkhau: i'm still not completly happy with my setup for editing python
[23:10:02] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: well, I need to get django to work
[23:10:24] Manuel Barkhau: well django always needs a database
[23:10:29] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: have you seen the last message on metagov?
[23:10:43] Manuel Barkhau: from ed?
[23:10:48] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: it seem that metascore might be used before we expect
[23:10:53] … no
[23:10:58] Manuel Barkhau: oh from matias
[23:11:02] … yes
[23:11:48] … well all the more reason to get something up and running
[23:11:54] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: yes
[23:11:56] Manuel Barkhau: feedback is valubl
[23:12:10] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: but I would strive to have it as simple as possible for now
[23:12:25] … I am really scared to scare off people with something too complicated
[23:12:36] Manuel Barkhau: i suppose
[23:12:50] … fear of fear how poetic
[23:13:12] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: unfortunately this kind of process need a minimum number of people to kick start
[23:13:16] … like a wiki
[23:13:28] … :) @ FoF
[23:13:54] Manuel Barkhau: the wiki seems to be coming along not too bad i thinj
[23:14:01] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: yes.
[23:14:34] … it is the first wiki I see from the start that actually works. oh, yes a few on work, but they were just used for boring things likephone numbers
[23:15:12] Manuel Barkhau: yes we have one at work too, they are usefull for some things
[23:15:13] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: I am surprised (actually flabbergasted) by how many people are speaking about metagovernment
[23:15:25] … I think Ed is making a wonderful work in keeping the attention high
[23:15:36] … I mean, I have seen many projects like this
[23:15:40] Manuel Barkhau: yes ed is great
[23:15:59] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: but there is something in this project that makes people hope: yes, maybe this time is the time
[23:16:12] … from contacting all the similar projects
[23:16:38] Manuel Barkhau: i think allot of people have been thinking about this, but very few have taken it up, to actually start a project
[23:16:46] … at least in this form
[23:16:47] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: yes.
[23:17:01] … ok. SO tomorrow I have 10 hours by train
[23:17:11] … I need to go.
[23:17:17] … I will talk to you soon
[23:17:27] Manuel Barkhau: well have fun, i hope it's not too complicated
[23:17:30] … ciao
[23:17:33] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: what I am also doing is writing in algorithm that given a list approximates it as a power law
[23:17:39] Manuel Barkhau: should i post the chat log somewhere?
[23:17:50] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: you can.
[23:18:04] … unless Ed gets too embarassed ;-)
[23:18:24] … it would actually be good to go through it, and keep at least the important bits
[23:18:27] … like the commands
[23:18:28] Manuel Barkhau: ah he deservs some credit
[23:18:35] … if he reads this far at all
[23:18:55] Pietro Speroni di Fenizio: maybe we could bold the important bits
[23:19:27] … ok, talk to you online.
[23:19:29] … ciao
[23:19:32] Manuel Barkhau: ciao